Joshua Gagnon

thoughts on Jesus, leadership, and the Church.

Ep 021: The "Messy Grace" of Ministry - An interviews with Caleb Kaltenbach

Welcome to Episode 21 the Joshua Gagnon Leadership Podcast!

Congratulations to username Complexkilla for winning this week’s book giveaway! Please send an email to info@joshuagagnon.com with your name and contact information so we can send you Carey Nieuwhof’s book, “Lasting Impact”. And make sure you are leaving reviews on iTunes or Stitcher of this podcast! Leave a review before our next episode comes out--in two weeks--and you might win our next book giveaway, “Messy Grace” by Caleb Kaltenbach.

Today’s guest is Caleb Kaltenbach, the lead pastor of Discovery Church in Simi Valley, CA. Before coming to Discovery Church, Caleb was on staff at Shepherd of the Hills Church for 11 years serving in the areas of college ministry, small groups, and multisite ministry. At Discovery Church, he serves as Lead Pastor where he is the lead communicator, casts vision, and leads with the elders and staff. He and his wife, Amy, have two children and are living in Southern California.

Learn More About Caleb:

Caleb’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/calebwilds

Caleb’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/calebwilds

Caleb’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/calebwilds/

Caleb’s Book, Messy Grace: http://messygracebook.com/

Discovery Church: http://discoverychurch.com/

3 Takeaways For Leaders:

1. Church growth happens when churches become a safe place for people to realize that they don’t have it all together. Caleb shares his experience when his homosexual mother came with him to a church he was preaching at, and was told not to bring his mother back. He says that the most faithful people are not the people who have it all together, but who are willing to say, “I’m doubting now. I don’t understand why this happened. I’m not okay.” Church has to be a place where it’s okay not to be okay.

2. The church has to be a place for community to accept all kinds of people with all kinds of struggles. So many times, we as Christians tell those in a homosexual lifestyle that not only do they need to stop being gay, but they have to lose the community they’ve been a part of and they won’t find it at church. Discovery Church states that they are a church where you can belong before you believe. Before churches make people leave the homosexual communities they find acceptance in, they need to offer that community to them within their church doors.

3. What are the church’s next steps when dealing with messy grace? Caleb explains that we first need to have conversations at the leadership level and be able to ask tough questions on leadership boards and staff teams. Another step is listening to those who struggle with these issues. Lastly, we need to hold firm to truth about what God says about intimacy being between a man and a woman. We need to allow these truths to guide us, but still wrestle with how to carry out grace and kindness.

Quotes From This Episode:

“A theological conviction should never be a catalyst to treat someone less.” - Caleb Kaltenbach

“I think the churches that ignore the issues of our day will become irrelevant and they will eventually become Pharisee factories.” - Caleb Kaltenbach

“We’ve got to be about both theology and ministry.” - Caleb Kaltenbach

“Churches need to understand that culture is not something to war against. Culture is something to lovingly engage.” - Caleb Kaltenbach

“As a church, we need to be ready to give answers because we’ve had the questions.” - Josh Gagnon

“This isn’t about gay or straight, this is about God’s church.” - Josh Gagnon

“Messy grace is not loving someone in spite of their sin, it’s loving someone that you struggle with loving.” - Josh Gagnon

“When I decided to follow Jesus, I gave up my rights. I don’t get the right to choose who I love and don’t love.” - Caleb Kaltenbach

“Loving the people who are hard to love makes us more like Jesus.” - Caleb Kaltenbach

For more leadership insights, follow Josh Gagnon on Twitter at @joshgagnon!